Comments for Guess What Normal Is http://guesswhatnormalis.com Just another WordPress site Wed, 22 Feb 2012 21:33:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 Comment on On Forgiveness by Lori http://guesswhatnormalis.com/2009/05/years-ago-i-lived-in-new-york-city-i-did-a-lot-of-journal-writing-then-i-was-writing-to-try-to-understand-myself-my-mind/#comment-3932 Lori Wed, 22 Feb 2012 21:33:26 +0000 http://guesswhatnormalis.com/2009/05/years-ago-i-lived-in-new-york-city-i-did-a-lot-of-journal-writing-then-i-was-writing-to-try-to-understand-myself-my-mind/#comment-3932 Amy, thank you so much for your response and for sharing. My mother occasionally likes to paint a rosy picture of my childhood. Sometimes I call her out on it but other times I say nothing and seethe after the visit. I very much like your idea of addressing the individual stories and not having a dramatic blowup over how my entire childhood was shit. I like this approach very much will definitely try it. We have had confrontations in the past and I have told my mother numerous times that I hate my father, etc. However, I have never specifically told my father how his drinking affected my life. He is a bully, narrow-minded, wound tightly, on the defensive -- an animal ready to attack -- and still drinks. Sometimes I am still afraid of him because he was physically abusive growing up and was moody and bullying. (Of course he was moody, he is an alcoholic. ) Recently I disagreed with his politics and he screamed at me. I have recently started therapy again and this time I would like to finally not care what my parents say and think of me. I have improved my boundaries over the years and they still need perfecting. I agree with your approach of of only agreeing to visits you can handle and limiting interaction. Lately, I visit less often (we live in same town) and sometimes I don't answer the phone. I avoid my parents because I am afraid I am going to lose control. It's painful and nerve-wracking when around them with my kids. I'm on the defensive, tense, and afraid. My kids are getting older (ages 9 and 11) and it won't be long (if they don't already know by now) until they are disappointed by their grandparents. My parents are incapable of real closeness and are self-centered. Navigating this whole thing is so difficult. This comment of yours is so wise and helpful: "When my father behaved selfishly and gnawed at my self-identity and self-esteem and loved me conditionally, well, forgiveness cannot erase the pain and anger of all that — but time and forgiveness (paired with boundary-setting) can make those feelings manageable" So true. My problem is that my feelings will be manageable for great stretches of time. I can go months without feeling angry or thinking about my parents and childhood. But then something will happen. They will say something insensitive, or I will see my father bullying my mother or a customer service person on the telephone, and it will trigger me and I will fall into this hole of hate and anger toward my parents. I long for relief and I long for the day I no longer care what they do or say. Thanks again for replying to my earlier comment and for creating this wonderful site. I really appreciate it. Amy, thank you so much for your response and for sharing.

My mother occasionally likes to paint a rosy picture of my childhood. Sometimes I call her out on it but other times I say nothing and seethe after the visit. I very much like your idea of addressing the individual stories and not having a dramatic blowup over how my entire childhood was shit. I like this approach very much will definitely try it.

We have had confrontations in the past and I have told my mother numerous times that I hate my father, etc. However, I have never specifically told my father how his drinking affected my life. He is a bully, narrow-minded, wound tightly, on the defensive — an animal ready to attack — and still drinks. Sometimes I am still afraid of him because he was physically abusive growing up and was moody and bullying. (Of course he was moody, he is an alcoholic. ) Recently I disagreed with his politics and he screamed at me.

I have recently started therapy again and this time I would like to finally not care what my parents say and think of me. I have improved my boundaries over the years and they still need perfecting. I agree with your approach of of only agreeing to visits you can handle and limiting interaction. Lately, I visit less often (we live in same town) and sometimes I don’t answer the phone. I avoid my parents because I am afraid I am going to lose control.

It’s painful and nerve-wracking when around them with my kids. I’m on the defensive, tense, and afraid. My kids are getting older (ages 9 and 11) and it won’t be long (if they don’t already know by now) until they are disappointed by their grandparents. My parents are incapable of real closeness and are self-centered. Navigating this whole thing is so difficult.

This comment of yours is so wise and helpful: “When my father behaved selfishly and gnawed at my self-identity and self-esteem and loved me conditionally, well, forgiveness cannot erase the pain and anger of all that — but time and forgiveness (paired with boundary-setting) can make those feelings manageable”

So true.

My problem is that my feelings will be manageable for great stretches of time. I can go months without feeling angry or thinking about my parents and childhood. But then something will happen. They will say something insensitive, or I will see my father bullying my mother or a customer service person on the telephone, and it will trigger me and I will fall into this hole of hate and anger toward my parents. I long for relief and I long for the day I no longer care what they do or say.

Thanks again for replying to my earlier comment and for creating this wonderful site. I really appreciate it.

]]> Comment on How to Break Free from a Parent’s Narcissistic Personality Disorder (Part Three in a Four-Part Series) by Amy Eden http://guesswhatnormalis.com/2010/12/how-to-break-free-from-a-parents-narcissistic-personality-disorder-part-three-in-a-four-part-series/#comment-3669 Amy Eden Tue, 21 Feb 2012 15:51:56 +0000 http://guesswhatnormalis.com/2010/12/how-to-break-free-from-a-parents-narcissistic-personality-disorder-part-three-in-a-four-part-series/#comment-3669 This is a hard one! There are a lot of resources online for ex-spouses of NPD people (and exes of psychopaths/borderline personality)...so I recommend checking those out. First thought I have is - document. Document everything. Dates, exceptions to scheduled dates, and that he pinned your son to the floor. Keep notes on it all. I also strongly suggest finding a counselor that can help you with your side of things (detachment) and also help you prepare your children for how to interact with their dad -- it's a minefield, clearly -- but the important thing is for you to be as nurturing as possible and help reinforce your kids' healthy self-esteem so that it's clear to them that they are OK people, and that their dad's issues aren't a reflection on them. You can't change a person, but you can help to 'arm' your kids with healthy perspectives and an emotional toolkit, and you have control over being the most healthy parent you can be. But definitely I recommend doing some work with a therapist around this issue because the worst thing would be for your ex to take up more space in your life than he deserves and he sounds like he extends his presence through drama... What do you think....? This is a hard one! There are a lot of resources online for ex-spouses of NPD people (and exes of psychopaths/borderline personality)…so I recommend checking those out. First thought I have is – document. Document everything. Dates, exceptions to scheduled dates, and that he pinned your son to the floor. Keep notes on it all.
I also strongly suggest finding a counselor that can help you with your side of things (detachment) and also help you prepare your children for how to interact with their dad — it’s a minefield, clearly — but the important thing is for you to be as nurturing as possible and help reinforce your kids’ healthy self-esteem so that it’s clear to them that they are OK people, and that their dad’s issues aren’t a reflection on them. You can’t change a person, but you can help to ‘arm’ your kids with healthy perspectives and an emotional toolkit, and you have control over being the most healthy parent you can be. But definitely I recommend doing some work with a therapist around this issue because the worst thing would be for your ex to take up more space in your life than he deserves and he sounds like he extends his presence through drama…
What do you think….?

]]> Comment on On Forgiveness by Amy Eden http://guesswhatnormalis.com/2009/05/years-ago-i-lived-in-new-york-city-i-did-a-lot-of-journal-writing-then-i-was-writing-to-try-to-understand-myself-my-mind/#comment-3668 Amy Eden Tue, 21 Feb 2012 15:42:26 +0000 http://guesswhatnormalis.com/2009/05/years-ago-i-lived-in-new-york-city-i-did-a-lot-of-journal-writing-then-i-was-writing-to-try-to-understand-myself-my-mind/#comment-3668 Thanks Lori! Heck I'm 40 and this stuff is present, at least to an extent. I'm not sure that it goes away 100%. It just becomes...manageable, and dimmer...less acute. What you wrote sounds a lot like something I've said to my therapist, about the anger not going away, about the resentment continuing to resurface, and the frustration when I feel like I gave in, yet again, to interactions that I'm not sure I want to have (in cases in which I'm unsure if I'm playing nice or genuinely want to spend time together). I don't remember exactly what he said to me but he helped me see that it was perfectly understandable for me to feel anger (and lots of it). I think forgiveness is a gesture we make within ourselves, a gesture to attempt to move on, a gesture that begs the Universe to alleviate some of our suffering about the person/event, and a gesture...at times...that brings relief -- to an extent. If someone broke a vase, you can forgive them. When my father behaved selfishly and gnawed at my self-identity and self-esteem and loved me conditionally, well, forgiveness cannot erase the pain and anger of all that -- but time and forgiveness (paired with boundary-setting) can make those feelings manageable. I'm wondering as I re-read your comment if you might be expecting yourself not to feel, not to feel all of those very, very valid and completely justified feelings...? If the little girl you were at 5 years old were standing before you, would you tell her she had a right to her anger, desperation, and feeling idiotic? I think that if you can embrace that little girl and allow her those feelings, you're working at the root level and that may bring you some of the empowerment you're needing. But to answer the question (sorry! I was inspired by your comment!) Before she died, I did confront my mother and she wasn't able to hear me (she was silent), but I'm glad I said what i had to say. It was for me to speak my mind. (She later, at a different point, told me that by abandoning me to her parents at age 3 or 4 (nobody remembers exactly how old I was) that she was "setting her daughter free," so that's a taste of her POV. With my father, I've confronted him in the past but not in the way I would like to now - when I confronted him in the past I was spewing anger (not unjustified); now I'd like to do it calmly. I know that I won't get anything from him in the act of confronting him in the way of acknowledgment (only a month ago did he punch another passenger on an airplane)--because, let's face it, we have expectations about the other person going 'Oh my God, You're Right." So my approach to owning my life is to say NO to visits I don't want and to limit interaction to only what feels OK to me and the little girl inside. That's not easy! That said, what I would like to do is address the stories my dad occasionally tells - some sweet story about when I was a kid - and use those opportunities to say, "Actually you were the only one laughing - I was really afraid when that happened, and scared and embarrassed about how angry you got." The reason I want to do it like that rather than a blanket-confrontation is for me...because every time I hear him summarize or glamorize a moment my childhood, I want to scream LIE! So what I need is not a grand confrontation, but I do need to address those quick casual stories that come up. Because I'm mad at myself when I don't, I'm mad at my silence (which feels like compliance); when I don't say anything I feel like I'm not championing my inner little girl and that I'm being drawn into the lie. Whoa - this is a letter...I hope there's something of use here! -AE Thanks Lori! Heck I’m 40 and this stuff is present, at least to an extent. I’m not sure that it goes away 100%. It just becomes…manageable, and dimmer…less acute. What you wrote sounds a lot like something I’ve said to my therapist, about the anger not going away, about the resentment continuing to resurface, and the frustration when I feel like I gave in, yet again, to interactions that I’m not sure I want to have (in cases in which I’m unsure if I’m playing nice or genuinely want to spend time together). I don’t remember exactly what he said to me but he helped me see that it was perfectly understandable for me to feel anger (and lots of it). I think forgiveness is a gesture we make within ourselves, a gesture to attempt to move on, a gesture that begs the Universe to alleviate some of our suffering about the person/event, and a gesture…at times…that brings relief — to an extent. If someone broke a vase, you can forgive them. When my father behaved selfishly and gnawed at my self-identity and self-esteem and loved me conditionally, well, forgiveness cannot erase the pain and anger of all that — but time and forgiveness (paired with boundary-setting) can make those feelings manageable.
I’m wondering as I re-read your comment if you might be expecting yourself not to feel, not to feel all of those very, very valid and completely justified feelings…? If the little girl you were at 5 years old were standing before you, would you tell her she had a right to her anger, desperation, and feeling idiotic? I think that if you can embrace that little girl and allow her those feelings, you’re working at the root level and that may bring you some of the empowerment you’re needing.
But to answer the question (sorry! I was inspired by your comment!) Before she died, I did confront my mother and she wasn’t able to hear me (she was silent), but I’m glad I said what i had to say. It was for me to speak my mind. (She later, at a different point, told me that by abandoning me to her parents at age 3 or 4 (nobody remembers exactly how old I was) that she was “setting her daughter free,” so that’s a taste of her POV. With my father, I’ve confronted him in the past but not in the way I would like to now – when I confronted him in the past I was spewing anger (not unjustified); now I’d like to do it calmly. I know that I won’t get anything from him in the act of confronting him in the way of acknowledgment (only a month ago did he punch another passenger on an airplane)–because, let’s face it, we have expectations about the other person going ‘Oh my God, You’re Right.” So my approach to owning my life is to say NO to visits I don’t want and to limit interaction to only what feels OK to me and the little girl inside. That’s not easy! That said, what I would like to do is address the stories my dad occasionally tells – some sweet story about when I was a kid – and use those opportunities to say, “Actually you were the only one laughing – I was really afraid when that happened, and scared and embarrassed about how angry you got.” The reason I want to do it like that rather than a blanket-confrontation is for me…because every time I hear him summarize or glamorize a moment my childhood, I want to scream LIE! So what I need is not a grand confrontation, but I do need to address those quick casual stories that come up. Because I’m mad at myself when I don’t, I’m mad at my silence (which feels like compliance); when I don’t say anything I feel like I’m not championing my inner little girl and that I’m being drawn into the lie.
Whoa – this is a letter…I hope there’s something of use here! -AE

]]> Comment on On Forgiveness by Lori http://guesswhatnormalis.com/2009/05/years-ago-i-lived-in-new-york-city-i-did-a-lot-of-journal-writing-then-i-was-writing-to-try-to-understand-myself-my-mind/#comment-3633 Lori Tue, 21 Feb 2012 01:10:06 +0000 http://guesswhatnormalis.com/2009/05/years-ago-i-lived-in-new-york-city-i-did-a-lot-of-journal-writing-then-i-was-writing-to-try-to-understand-myself-my-mind/#comment-3633 Hello Amy, I have read so much of your blog and I appreciate it so much. I have read all of your entries on forgiveness. I am still having a hard time forgiving. I have so much resentment and anger. It paralyzes me. Some times are better than others. I can go for months without thinking about things, or being acutely resentful, and then it comes back to the surface and I feel intensely resentful, angry, desperate, and idiotic. I feel like an idiot and a chump for still talking to my alcoholic father and my enabler mother and for allowing them into my life and my children's lives. My question to you is if you have ever addressed your parent and told them your hurts and how they were horrible parents. I know you mother is not alive but have you ever confronted your father? I have never confronted my parents and I am 39-years-old. Hello Amy, I have read so much of your blog and I appreciate it so much. I have read all of your entries on forgiveness. I am still having a hard time forgiving. I have so much resentment and anger. It paralyzes me. Some times are better than others. I can go for months without thinking about things, or being acutely resentful, and then it comes back to the surface and I feel intensely resentful, angry, desperate, and idiotic. I feel like an idiot and a chump for still talking to my alcoholic father and my enabler mother and for allowing them into my life and my children’s lives. My question to you is if you have ever addressed your parent and told them your hurts and how they were horrible parents. I know you mother is not alive but have you ever confronted your father? I have never confronted my parents and I am 39-years-old.

]]> Comment on How to Break Free from a Parent’s Narcissistic Personality Disorder (Part Three in a Four-Part Series) by marie http://guesswhatnormalis.com/2010/12/how-to-break-free-from-a-parents-narcissistic-personality-disorder-part-three-in-a-four-part-series/#comment-3530 marie Sun, 19 Feb 2012 02:43:15 +0000 http://guesswhatnormalis.com/2010/12/how-to-break-free-from-a-parents-narcissistic-personality-disorder-part-three-in-a-four-part-series/#comment-3530 Do you have any advice to help children who must have long visitations with a parent with NPD? They cannot say "no" without putting themselves in danger of his rage. He actually pinned my son to the floor for that one. I don't have much chance of our courts here stepping in to change custody unless there has been physical injury, which almost happened but did not. My children recognize the abuse and control but don't know how to deal with this parent. He can become dangerous if crossed or he does not have control. Two of my kids are afraid of him and the other "needs" to be more afraid of him for safety reasons. I don't want them getting physically hurt or suffering any more emotional hurt. If I don't give them up for visitations, I will be held in contempt of court. They are court ordered to go until 18 and the youngest is 9. Do you have any advice to help children who must have long visitations with a parent with NPD? They cannot say “no” without putting themselves in danger of his rage. He actually pinned my son to the floor for that one. I don’t have much chance of our courts here stepping in to change custody unless there has been physical injury, which almost happened but did not. My children recognize the abuse and control but don’t know how to deal with this parent. He can become dangerous if crossed or he does not have control. Two of my kids are afraid of him and the other “needs” to be more afraid of him for safety reasons. I don’t want them getting physically hurt or suffering any more emotional hurt. If I don’t give them up for visitations, I will be held in contempt of court. They are court ordered to go until 18 and the youngest is 9.

]]> Comment on Watch GWNI Interview: “Guess How to Have Fun!” with Tian Dayton, Ph.D. by Lori http://guesswhatnormalis.com/2012/02/watch-gwni-interview-guess-how-to-have-fun-with-tian-dayton-ph-d/#comment-3454 Lori Fri, 17 Feb 2012 13:49:56 +0000 http://guesswhatnormalis.com/?p=1439#comment-3454 Thanks for doing these great interviews. I love your site. I am so glad to have found it. Thanks for doing these great interviews. I love your site. I am so glad to have found it.

]]> Comment on The Answer Resides In Your Gut, Not Your Brainy-Brain by Amy Eden http://guesswhatnormalis.com/2012/01/the-answer-resides-in-your-gut-not-your-brainy-brain/#comment-3269 Amy Eden Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:55:06 +0000 http://guesswhatnormalis.com/?p=1267#comment-3269 Carl, it's great to hear from you and also to learn about your site. Thank you. I'm 40 and still very much a work in progress. You're 63 and still practicing - I like that. There's no end to the practice...being "done" would be antithetical to the process. I'm beginning to think that for all my striving for knowledge...to figure all this dysfunctional stuff out...that, acutally, the gut is truly where all answers reside. Peace - Carl, it’s great to hear from you and also to learn about your site. Thank you. I’m 40 and still very much a work in progress. You’re 63 and still practicing – I like that. There’s no end to the practice…being “done” would be antithetical to the process.
I’m beginning to think that for all my striving for knowledge…to figure all this dysfunctional stuff out…that, acutally, the gut is truly where all answers reside.
Peace -

]]> Comment on The Answer Resides In Your Gut, Not Your Brainy-Brain by Carl S http://guesswhatnormalis.com/2012/01/the-answer-resides-in-your-gut-not-your-brainy-brain/#comment-2647 Carl S Sun, 05 Feb 2012 07:58:43 +0000 http://guesswhatnormalis.com/?p=1267#comment-2647 Being in my brain most of the time. Thinking, re-thinking, revising, re-playing. Current, past and future. This is a habit that is mostly unconscious. I have noticed that I can observe my positive cognitive changes coming when it's been months, four months, six months, maybe even twelve months or two years from the time I express to my therapist that I have started to really own my desire to be more patient with myself and allow myself just to enjoy the moment. My therapist confirms this observation and I feel genuinely validated. I am very grateful when I can see that I have been regularly choosing not to self-monitor and try to control my outcomes. male, 63 and still gaining new infusions of peace in my soul. Being in my brain most of the time. Thinking, re-thinking, revising, re-playing. Current, past and future.

This is a habit that is mostly unconscious. I have noticed that I can observe my positive cognitive changes coming when it’s been months, four months, six months, maybe even twelve months or two years from the time I express to my therapist that I have started to really own my desire to be more patient with myself and allow myself just to enjoy the moment.
My therapist confirms this observation and I feel genuinely validated.

I am very grateful when I can see that I have been regularly choosing not to self-monitor and try to control my outcomes.
male, 63 and still gaining new infusions of peace in my soul.

]]> Comment on Books on Narcissism – 5 Books for Breaking Free from a Narcissist (Four-Part Series) by Marty Parrill http://guesswhatnormalis.com/2010/12/reading-list-for-how-to-break-free-from-a-parents-narcissistic-personality-disorder/#comment-2591 Marty Parrill Sat, 04 Feb 2012 01:10:20 +0000 http://guesswhatnormalis.com/2010/12/reading-list-for-how-to-break-free-from-a-parents-narcissistic-personality-disorder/#comment-2591 interesting dealing with narcissists or better yet being raised by one not knowing what was wrong with me. I always wondered why my father was like he was. Nothing could explain his cold careless treatment of me. Then I read this book, The Narcissistic Family: Diagnosis and Treatment [Paperback] Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman (Author), Robert M. Pressman (Author) They described my father to a tee. Finally I understood what I was dealing with, for the first time in my life. Nice blog and material. I see you are an expert with five books on narcissists. interesting dealing with narcissists or better yet being raised by one not knowing what was wrong with me. I always wondered why my father was like he was. Nothing could explain his cold careless treatment of me. Then I read this book,

The Narcissistic Family: Diagnosis and Treatment [Paperback]
Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman (Author), Robert M. Pressman (Author)

They described my father to a tee. Finally I understood what I was dealing with, for the first time in my life. Nice blog and material.

I see you are an expert with five books on narcissists.

]]> Comment on March 24-25th Workshop – “Authentically, Unapologetically You!” by Amy Eden http://guesswhatnormalis.com/2009/01/test-of-workshop-sign-up-button/#comment-2135 Amy Eden Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:45:57 +0000 http://guesswhatnormalis.com/?p=1287#comment-2135 Hi all! Judy and I have received some questions about the workshop, and will capture the questions and answers here for everyone's benefit. Thanks! Amy & Judy Q: Why are you two doing this together? A: I jumped on the opportunity to co-lead a workshop with Judy, because she's coming to the States from Johannesburg--for me it's a rare opportunity to work with her. We've been discussing fusing our efforts, whether for a tele-seminar or workbook, over time and now that she's traveling here, we are taking the fusion live! Q: Where exactly is this workshop taking place? A: In a Parlour room at the Hilton Washington Dulles Airport (Greater D.C. area) http://www.dulleshilton.com 13869 Park Center Road - Dulles Airport Herndon, VA (703) 478-2900 Q: Will there be a block of rooms at a hotel reserved for this so that I can have the option of a discounted room rate? A: No, as the minimum number of guaranteed guests for that is too high. However, the hotel room rates are affordable, ranging from $100+ up, depending on the size of room you choose. Q: What about food - are you feeding us? A: Yes! We are feeding you a yummy lunch on both Saturday and Sunday. You are responsible for providing your own breakfast and dinner. Q: What if I'm vegetarian or vegan or Kosher? A: We are ordering lunch from Panera Bread. You can find the menu here, and feel free to let us know if you prefer a certain kind of salad and/or sandwich. http://www.panerabread.com/menu/cafe QUESTIONS? POST 'EM HERE! Hi all!

Judy and I have received some questions about the workshop, and will capture the questions and answers here for everyone’s benefit.

Thanks!
Amy & Judy

Q: Why are you two doing this together?
A: I jumped on the opportunity to co-lead a workshop with Judy, because she’s coming to the States from Johannesburg–for me it’s a rare opportunity to work with her. We’ve been discussing fusing our efforts, whether for a tele-seminar or workbook, over time and now that she’s traveling here, we are taking the fusion live!

Q: Where exactly is this workshop taking place?
A: In a Parlour room at the Hilton Washington Dulles Airport (Greater D.C. area)

http://www.dulleshilton.com

13869 Park Center Road – Dulles Airport
Herndon, VA
(703) 478-2900

Q: Will there be a block of rooms at a hotel reserved for this so that I can have the option of a discounted room rate?
A: No, as the minimum number of guaranteed guests for that is too high. However, the hotel room rates are affordable, ranging from $100+ up, depending on the size of room you choose.

Q: What about food – are you feeding us?
A: Yes! We are feeding you a yummy lunch on both Saturday and Sunday. You are responsible for providing your own breakfast and dinner.

Q: What if I’m vegetarian or vegan or Kosher?
A: We are ordering lunch from Panera Bread. You can find the menu here, and feel free to let us know if you prefer a certain kind of salad and/or sandwich.

http://www.panerabread.com/menu/cafe

QUESTIONS? POST ‘EM HERE!

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